Cheyanne Mallas

0:01  

Speaker 1: Welcome to For the Record, an unfiltered view on current trends and timeless advice for surviving in the esthetics industry. Whether you're an injector, practice owner, sales rep or marketer, it's time to set the record straight. Each week we cut through the chaos and showcase diverse perspectives and winning ideas and the best minds in the industry. I'm your host, Dr. Tiffany Hall, Chief growth officer at Aesthetic Record. Now, let's get started on this week's episode.

 
 

0:32  

Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of For The record. This is episode 50. We’re halfway through season three. We have a great guest today. I have known this person for many years. I met through Gain through Galderma. And she's a sculpture-loving alternative medicine queen who has built a huge business with lots of booties by the way. She has tons of booties. She's in LA. She is a PA who is on the up and up when it comes to becoming an entrepreneur growing her practice and brand. She is training and living and trying to seize the moment and take advantage of all this happening. Now anesthetics, what's going to happen soon with her insight on regenerative medicine, exosomes what's happening with red light therapy and the whole mind body wellness continuum. And she's here today. So PA Cheyanne, welcome to our show. 

 
 

1:19 

Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here with you. You're one of my favorite people on the planet and definitely have been a mentor to me. So thank you for having me. And I thank you for all your wisdom and guidance over all these years. 

 
 

1:32

Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate that. But let's talk about you enough about me. Private Suite LA, which is this thriving little Mecca and middle of LA that you have built. I think we just said two years we were just talking about this off air. For about two years, you've had this practice, it's been growing, your Instagram following has grown, you're growing as a brand. You've got a lot going on my friend. So give us and our listeners a bit of a backtrack on your story. And what you're doing right now and kind of where you've been also.

 
 

1:59  

Speaker 1: Absolutely. It wasn't a straight path to aesthetics. I had an interesting trajectory to get here, that's for sure. I was a French major at university and a French history major. And when I graduated, I moved to the south of France and worked as a perfumer for several years making fragrances. And then I'm just going to give you the Reader's Digest version. I decided I wanted to do something a little bit more profound with myself and go into medicine. But the PA path sort of was introduced to me and I realized that was the shortest path to be doing what I wanted to be doing. The one caveat was I had never taken a science class before. So I moved back to New York, I enrolled in a post baccalaureate program in premedical sciences and I worked as a phlebotomist and with the EMTs, I did everything you name it, I was hustling all over the place. Then I knew I wanted to go to Cornell because they're the only PA program that had a surgical focus. So I was always passionate about plastic surgery, reconstructive surgery and aesthetics. I just didn't know what area I wanted to go into. But that definitely was sort of what I put my intention and focus on. And that's where I ended up. 

 
 

3:09

Speaker 1: So to hear you say that the PA route was the shortest route to get where you wanted to go, I think is quite shocking. So we had Sarah Belle Daris last week, she had a very similar story as you have like, “I want to be a PA”. So you take all the science classes, you go to PA school, which by the way is as we all know, very intense but you're in New York, how do you decide to end up of all places coast to coast back in LA? It's quite a quite a plane ride over there.

 
 

3:32  

Speaker 2: Well, like Sarah, I was originally going to go to medical school to be a plastic surgeon and then our stories are very similar. One of the residents sort of had a come-to-Jesus conversation with me and said, “No, you need to be a PA” and then sort of introduced me to one and I thought “Wow, this is really-really-really great”. And what also I loved about Cornell is the PAs in the classes are the same as the medical students and we also get the same number of electives. So I was able to get eight electives, and I spent them all in various areas of plastic surgery and dermatology which really gave me a comprehensive education and also took me to my fellowship, which is where I went after I graduated. 

 
 

To answer your question in a very roundabout way, one of my clerkships was out here at UCLA with a very famous reconstructive surgeon named Dr. Henry Colorado; he's no longer practicing. I spent 16 weeks out here with all his fellows and residents and I just thought it was the best thing in the world. At eight o'clock at night we're sitting at a Whole Foods having a salad instead of freezing in the snow in New York. Then my fiance at the time, a general surgeon, the plan was to come to California. We both came to California just not together. So love was part of it and then also the weather and a good work life balance.

 
 

4:51

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if I meet you, you're very much a California girl. You have a New York edge to you. I can see it all coming together now Cheyanne, but you also had this whole other life in France perfumer, you had to kind of backtrack to that to like, and I asked Sarah the same question: come to your similar paths- at what point in that life is a person decide- I think this is happening across the industry right now we're seeing so many new people coming in- Do you decide living in France being a perfumer like that's not good enough? You want to go into aesthetics? What was the impetus for you to leave that career behind? And in essence as an adult, right, not a college kid anymore, start totally over something totally brand new. I just really wanted to do something more profound with my life. 

 
 

5:31

Speaker 2: I also realized I didn't want to live in France for the rest of my life. And as much art is involved as perfumery. It's very much science heavy, very chemistry heavy. So it married both of my two favorite things, art and science. And that's sort of what brought me back to New York and put me on a different path. Correct, like Sarah, it's not an easy path. It's definitely four and a half year long Haul. For sure. For sure. 

 
 

6:01

Speaker 1: Yes, I'm going to say it's not an easy path. I think that to say the PA path was easier is a misnomer. It used to be like go be the janitor or somebody. Go be the trash guy like, great job. Everyone needs it, but a little faster to delivery than maybe being a PA. But we're glad that you're here, obviously. But you've had 15, almost 16 years- as a PA. So you've been doing this for quite a while before aesthetics really took off the way that we know it today, obviously like injectables and things. How did you get part of that? Obviously, plastics reconstruction, dermatology, skincare, and now the injectable route because that's, I think, where you focus most of your time now. How did you get into that part of the aesthetic industry? 

 
 

6:41

Speaker 2: When I moved here, I worked for several plastic surgeons, and you know, we're up early in the operating room. And then I was usually in the clinic with them or in the operating room and then doing injectables on one or two days a week. And that sort of became the focus of really what I wanted to be working on. If I'm going to get up at four o'clock in the morning, I decided I wanted to be doing it for myself, not for someone else. Then I ended up running a couple of med spas for some different plastic surgeons. Then I worked in larger group dermatology practices. And the issue with that is when you work in a larger- I don't say corporate, but yes, it's a little bit more formulaic. There's a formula that you have to follow- that didn't really work for me. I've always been an out of the box thinker. I always try to push creativity beyond rejuvenation into the realm of beauty maximization. When you're working in a sort of a larger group practice, that doesn't really work. 

 
 

So, Malcolm Gladwell says, “Every overnight success is a decade in the making”. Not really a success. I mean, I always try to do benchmarks. My birthday is in December. So I always try to evaluate what I have accomplished this year. How far Have I grown and definitely looking back on the past 10 years, I've grown tremendously. During that time, I also became a gain trainer, as you know, I'm grateful to Galderma for all of the things I'm able to go and do and see and people that I've gotten to meet and train and it's just such a wonderful opportunity to be able to give back. I've probably spent more money on my aesthetic education than my undergraduate and graduate education. I think I've always wanted to be the best. And by that, I mean, I have the best understanding of all technologies that we're offering currently in aesthetics, so I can bring that to my patients. My practice is very bespoke medicine. It's not a high-volume type of situation. So it's a very white glove type of service. So I want to do that with care. And with tremendous service, because I find that something that is really lacking in the world, not so much in our industry, but in the world, just my, my practice is very service oriented. I want people to feel special, and I want people to feel taken care of. And that's why they keep coming back.

 
 

9:01  

Speaker 1: I want to pull back layer to the bespoke part of it because I feel like that is such a, I don't want to say unique- I mean, it's unique in the sense that what you're doing is very customized, but I think it's what we're all having to go because the factory medicine idea that you mentioned, doesn't really work and aesthetics. Patients need too much of a diverse set of things and wants and desires. But to that point, I have a question for you that you know, I've never asked anything, anyone on this show ever before. But as a PA obviously dermatologist relies heavily on past to do so much of the office consultations, evaluations, prescriptions, and all that. Do you think that there's a place now to be able to do that and to do aesthetics in the same practice? Or do you feel like I have very few friends who are PAs that are actually doing dermatology work and their aesthetics practice? Like it's too much. It's got to be a whole separate thing. It's your point to formulate I can't do it here. I'm just doing aesthetics. But is there a place for that in our industry? 

 
 

9:56

Speaker 2: I would hope so I had the opportunity to train several dermatology practices in Sacramento and that was probably the biggest frustration for all their mid-level providers is that they were, you know, stuck in a medical DERM clinic and they weren't able to do any cosmetics. 

 
 

Looking good never goes out of style, Tiffany, you know, even in a disruptive world and a disruptive economy, which is what we're now reentering. So I think we all have to shift focuses for 2023. So I think probably those PAs in medical GERM right now, we're going to be stuck in medical GERM for a while until the economy bounces back, because insurance pays the bills, you know? 

 
 

10:42

Speaker 1: Oh, I do know, I think with PE firms coming in, it's very, very sexy right now to have all those billables. But, you know, I think what you're doing with the bespoke practice is also such an interesting point, especially when you mentioned the recession and things, you know, apparently happening, which, in Texas, we're kind of isolated here. We're still big boobs, big lips, where you have not quite felt it yet. But to that point, you offer a lot of really unique things. I mean, just talking to you, even now, you can tell you have a very unique perspective on aesthetics. You're offering a lot of rigidity of things that aren't really, in the pop culture scene yet. Walk us through that. What are the things that you're offering that you think your patients need, that are probably not mainstream yet that will carry you into the 2020 series when the economy is a little bit less than stellar? 

 
 

11:24

Speaker 2: You know, as you pointed out, at the beginning, I had a 15-year career. I hadn't thought about that, until you pointed that out. So I've gone from, you know, people coming in saying, “I only have money for one syringe, and then you're sort of limited in what you can do”. My patients have been with me for a very long time now, I would say 13-15 years, and I now have the luxury of them coming and saying “Well, what do you recommend? What do I need to do to age younger?” I've always been passionate about regenerative aesthetics before it sort of had its Cinderella moment, which it's having right now, I've always been fascinated with our ability to continue to develop the structure and the regeneration, the regeneration of the structure and function of the skin and soft tissue, its skin help, we can see, you know, especially in California, it's the perfect marketplace for that. I don't want to say everybody's lean and fit and healthy, but about 90% of my patients are. So it's the perfect demographic to really promote skin health. And it's not so much what I can do with my needles. It's a global approach to skin health and aging younger and it starts from within. So I work with a lot of providers, so your medicine providers, as well to sort of educate my patients properly. And we sort of develop a global approach to aging younger and everyone's very happy about that. 

 
 

12:44

Speaker 1: So you know, you're a huge sculpture injector, big bio stimulator, you're my girl, I look at your Instagram all the time, because you do a ton of the derrieres the rear ends. You're probably the first person that I knew of who's really probably promoting that big volume, big enhancement, big improvement. I say big not in size, but like, in focus is what I should have said, that was kind of like your sweet spot. I think during the whole sort of virtual and virtual the whole COVID era you are really in on that. How did you get there? When did the love affair of Sculptra start? You're a very early adopter, and Sculptra. I think one of the first I knew of really promoting it. So how did you find that product and become such a big advocate of that? 

 
 

13:27

Speaker 2: I feel like today, and what I mean today, right now it's trendy in esthetics, everyone's talking about filler fatigue. How I look at faces and my aesthetic approaches I've been seeing I would I thought was filler fatigue for several years now. My goal for my patients has always been to bring back natural beauty into this unnatural world. So I wanted to learn all about the ways we could do that with the various bio stimulators. I've had the opportunity to train with some very famous injectors. I've also invested in my education. I flew to London to train with Dr. Kate Goldie, who's a big proponent of radios. So in addition to Sculptra, I also work with radios. And it was amazing. How often in today's world, you get to spend 10 hours doing this? We literally just looked at faces today for the artistic component of it, of it, not for the profit component of it. So what an honor to be in her presence. She's a true genius, and you need to have her aesthetic next, you really do. She is a genius and has a wealth of knowledge. And it was beyond inspiring just to spend 10 hours with her. I got to work with her. I worked with Shino as well. I did private training with him. I tell all the people that I trained today, too, “You want to look at as many faces as you can with as many of us as we can, because we all do it differently. And not one way is the right way. It's just our aesthetic approach.” The technique, you can teach the artists but you can't. That has to be innate, and a lot of people don't have it. 

 
 

I think to answer your question very well on about whey and how I came up with the bespoke approach to my practices, when I stopped caring about what other people thought about what I was putting out on Instagram, and just put out the work that I thought was beautiful and in artistic and the aesthetic that represented beauty to me is when it started to gain traction. 

 
 

I'm also an introvert. I know people find that hard to read, because when I know you, I'm not but people misunderstand me a little bit, because I'm more shy and quiet. I'm not as outgoing as you are Tiffany. I bet you can talk to a fly on the wall, and make them feel at home. So it's just really worked well for me. I love all of my patients. I'm grateful to them. And it's wonderful to be able to spend that one on one time with them. And especially as we're entering a recession, again, if people are coming in and spending that kind of money with you, they want to feel special. People remember at the end of the day, not what you said, but how you made them feel. So my goal is to not only make them look better and feel better, but also have a positive experience. So they feel taken care of and they come back. Fortunately, we've been successful enough in doing that. As we grow and expand the brand, I think that's the challenge now that we're having- my medical director and I were facing in 2023 is how to make that scalable, because it's a very personalized approach. 

 
 

I did hire somebody, unfortunately, that didn't work out and now I'm training two new people that don't have experience. And I much prefer that because then I don't have bad habits to break. 

 
 

16:40

Speake 1: Yeah, I think because you are doing bespoke, I think almost having no experience is better. Because when you are bespoke, you've almost custom curated this list of services, the way that Cheyanne does them, obviously, it's the brand way and I get that it's the private suite LA way; But it's really from your brain and hands. I think when you come with experience, they're not to be combative, but there is a combative component to that. I've been a PA for 15 years. Also, like I know the same way you know how to do it. Sometimes there's like an inherent argument that happens because you're both experienced, you both have a great way to do it, but she's not the same way. But at the end of the day, it's your way, your business, your name is on it, it's your thing. I think there is a lot of confusion there. Also to your point about ethics and people and what they do and don't do and managing through that and our industry today. To kind of take one step back to the sculpture thing you mentioned, if people are going to spend a lot of money with you, what a great investment to spin it in. Sculptura, that whole rent, not own not rent thing. The foundational component of Sculptura and the platform, like what a great time right now. 

 
 

If you're listening to this in 2023, promote bio stimulators, because they're going to be such a longer-term play for your patient, obviously, profit wise for you, but also because it's going to be better for the patient. But that's a different softbox. 

 
 

Let’s go to your business owner stuff, all that menagerie. You went from scaling your brand. Give us a bit of an overview. When you thought about opening your practice. What did you want to build and what were the steps that you took to build it? Is it one room, eight rooms, six staff or one staff? Is it one staff to paint the picture for us with broad strokes, what it looked like the day it started, and then how you're starting to build and grow it now. 

 
 

18:19

I took a much more of an entrepreneurial approach to it. There wasn't a plan. I kind of just said, I'm just going to go do it. And I opened my business in the middle of COVID. And I thought, “I hope they come”. And they did. So I'm grateful for that. But it was a tiny room. I was the only one in the building because everything in LA County was closed. However, I was allowed to be there because I was medical. So the first day we opened, I didn't have an exam share, I didn't have anything. I ended up having to order a massage table on Amazon so that I could do my sculpture about treatment. And I returned it the next day. Thankfully, there's a UPS Store right next to my office. But you just figure it out. I'd probably say the biggest lesson learned in COVID is you just have to roll with it and figure it out and there's always a way. I think it's the New Yorker on me, I have this innate hustle and I really don't like that word because I think there's a negative connotation to it. You just work hard, and I think unfortunately today nobody wants to work. There's a strange level of expectation as I'm trying to hire staff and that is unfortunate to me, I understand very well that no one's ever going to be me and no one's ever going to care as much as I care. But I definitely don't see the fire in anybody that I had as a student. I never would question my mentors or anything like that. You're given instructions by the chief resident, if all of them you know, here are now, you get questions, you get smacked, kids are sick, they can't come to work. So it's a whole new world and it saddens me I have to say really.

 
 

20:01  

Speaker 1: No, but I think if you're an employer, you're having that exact same internal dialogue today, no matter where you are, what industry you're in, that's a conversation that everyone's having. And like, the talent pool today is just different. I'm very fortunate to set a record, we hire a much different kind of person, we have a very different idea of what we want here to your point, I want them to have no experience, I want to make them into, you know, into these little AI Rockstar heroes. And I don't want them to come with all this baggage because it's hard to paid them enough and to have all that already in their mind and be able to give them what they want because they have preconceived notions and are already jaded. I can't fix it. I can't fix your bad memories, your bad experiences. I can't start over for you, you have to do it on your own. 

 
 

Anyway, to that point, I think every sick person I talk to every owner is saying what you're saying, I'm like, “Where are they? How do I survive this? How do I make this work?” And so you're training new people right now. What is your perspective now that you know, when you've had some experiences that maybe weren't so positive? What are you doing differently this time around?

 
 

20:59  

Speaker 2: Also, just to go back a little bit to answer your question how I started, I started in a very small space. Very similar to Sarah's story, I watched a little bit of her chat with you last week. I did it all by myself. I have my medical director, obviously, but we don't have any investors. So I wanted to start small and see how we grew from there. We are growing, but I don't need a 10,000 square foot facility. I think keep the overhead low, and the patients happy and sort of maintain the bespoke model that we have. And it'll do really well for us. I'm not looking to do high volume filler at 450 a syringe like all the med spas in there. The Groupons, I want to keep what makes us unique and makes us special. Then share my techniques with my staff. Hopefully they stay. And yes, I find that people that are new, that don't have any experience, they definitely don't have bad habits, and they are eager, but I'm also definitely a little reticent from the experience I had about someone that I had to let go. Everything's great and rosy right now. But let's see where we are in six months. So how I start training people is just with toxins. Right now, they're in their toxin phases and stay there for quite some time. And then we'll go from there.

 
 

Speaker 1: I love the toxin phase. You probably have heard me say this, I think toxin is the most well- because it's just used it so much as most high risk thing that we do in this industry, because we use it so much adverse events are so prevalent, if people just kind of blow past it, like it's no big deal. So I am an advocate of your toxin phase. I think it's great. But I love the idea that you said, you know, we started small and we're thinking about as we scale and as we build, maintain the customer service aspect of white glove service part of our business. 

 
 

I know that you are a grower, you're a doer, you're a builder, and you're going to keep building. And so whenever we have this, Private Suite LA location to location three location for how do you plan to maintain that bespoke high touch culture as you grow up? Like that's, again that the second challenge is I have great employees at location one. “How do I have that now at location two and location three? Because I think that's a multiplicative, you know, challenge compared to just having great employees to start with. 

 
 

23:14

Speaker 2: Yeah, correct. So theres is a Private Suite LA right now, you know, then the goal would be your Private Suite San Francisco, or Private Suite Orange County, we're sort of deciding on locations from where we want to be, but still keep it small. And we're not looking to open 10,000 square foot facilities. And then the highlight will obviously be on, you know, whatever injector that we have there to curate a clientele for them. Forpeople that I bring on, I don't give them my patients, we bring new patients in. And then I want them to develop those relationships, because it's a long term relationship. I am teaching them how to do the patient assessment and walk them through a beauty plan, so that patients come back. And then I want them to develop their own clientele. 

 
 

So, it's starting very small. I would say, first learn to walk then to run. Right now we're learning to crawl, you know, we're starting really in the infancy of it. And I think that's probably just from the unfortunate experience I had with that person that I hired and had to let go. But right now, I'm just rather safe and like you said, there's nothing wrong with toxins, it's great. It's great, that's what everyone's spending their money on. I have to tell you, it just went through. I went with my business manager and we went through all the numbers for the fourth quarter and sculpture radius and toxin is what people are spending their money on.

 
 

24:30   

Speaker 1: I think it will continue to mean lifts are big and everyone loves lifts. But I think that at the end of the day, those who can afford it are getting their routine maintenance with their toxin; they're keeping those lines down. And then they're getting again more of that platform and generative bio stimulator kind of treatment as well. So I think the economy in many ways dictates what we do. I think that your two bookings there are my maintenance and then my ongoing treatments, again, no filler fatigue kind of thing. You are a big believer in this mind body global kind of approach to wellness.

 
 

When you're hiring people to come work with you, are you looking for that same kind of thing? Because I mean, to your point, injections are one part of your business, but you have this whole other thing that you're looking at every part of their face, life, and lifestyle. How do you screen for that or find employees who share that same passion that you have? 

 
 

25:20

Speaker 2: My interview approach has changed, changed, I want someone that wants to work, and obviously has a good appearance and is good with clients. So really, right now, it's the basics of someone that wants to work and put in the time and then the rest I can teach them. And then we hope we all will work together to answer your previous question, how do we hope to maintain the bespoke quality of our business? Again, I think this is what's always made me a little bit unique and put me on, off the beaten path is that the goal? Everyone comes in, and they want to look better, but not different. So the goal of looking better, but not different, is the magical dermatology paradox. So how do I do that? My approach is to make subtle adjustments in facial proportions, while respecting characteristic facial identity. So what I'm really trying to do with the people that I brought on is teach them that approach. And then I feel that if I'm able to somehow instill that we'll be able to make it scalable and maintain what makes us unique.

 
 

26:25  

Speaker 1: When I think you have a unique advantage as you're a trainer, you get to practice that all the time. And I have this conversation with a lot of people. When you go into practice as a trainer, you don't know anything yet you're walking in stone cold off the street. And you look around and the people look crazy, they're overly injected. They're patient before and after they are not so great. You being you're like, “Oh my gosh, this is like a filler face, crazy cheeks”. 

 
 

26:49

Speaker 2: Sorry to interrupt you but I have no filler in my face Tiffany- none. So when I walk in, people are always shocked, but no, like, we are our billboards. I just don't understand your point of like, you walk into these conferences and the lips, like enter the room before the person does and the cheeks are out to here and I'm just like, no, I have no filler in my face. I have Sculptra and Dysport. That's it's, I want to look normal. I think my patients are grateful to me for that. But correct, you walk into these offices and the lips are overfilled, the vermilion border is completely obliterated, the tear troughs. I don't know what's going on. Then you sort of start to ask the questions. And it's like, “Wow, okay. Okay. Let's rewind here a little bit. Let's go back to the basics.” 

 
 

27:43

Speaker 1: One, that's my question. I wonder. I think people don't do it with ill intent. I want to believe it, they're doing it because they want what's best for the patient, they don't know how to do it. It's not to make money or to keep selling syringes. But how do we as an industry- because I know that you do believe in this, like, very much aging, younger, subtle approach? How do we get folks to shift their mindset, and we're starting to see a shift now to that mentality to stop this, you know, overly mathematical injection pattern that we see everywhere? “You're going to put a here and here and here.” For everyone that comes in, how do we stop that and really get people down this path of looking at the nuanced delights, the shadows, the balance of symmetry, all things that, you as an artist understand, when does that come into play? How do we stop the madness?

 
 

28:23  

Speaker 2: That's a great question. A great point. Obviously, when I start all my training, we do a patient assessment, and then we do an anatomy review. I go through everything with them and then everyone in the room always has this aha moment. They tell me how amazing and I'm not tooting my own horn. I'm just sort of taken aback of, “Well, how could you be injecting for seven years and not know this?” Or “How could you be injecting for 12 years and never pick up a cannula?” I find it quite baffling. Then I realized, okay, I've worked really hard on my aesthetic education. I've spent a lot of money on my dedication, aesthetic education, but that was always because I've had that desire to be the best and want to offer the best practices and the best outcomes to my patients. So in the training sessions, again, they're like, “Wow, you're so amazing”. And then I think when I leave, unfortunately, as you're aware, there are certain practices that are tied to certain companies, and they're forced to use certain products. And so the injectors are a little limited in what they can or can't do. But I can't tell you the number of messages I get saying, “Thank you so much”. “Oh, my God, I wish I could use the products you trade us on today, but we can't”. And stuff like that. So I think a lot of it is sort of a business type situation that they don't have control over, but a lot of them do want to do other things and try and be better, I guess.

 
 

Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I think you bring up another great point, too. If you're listening to this and you are a business owner don’t live with people. Don’t live at their ability to learn and grow. What a tragic thing to have someone come into your practice who is an amazing trainer to excite your staff, to impassion them to be better, to teach them great techniques and then they leave and say, “Gosh I wish I could use that here but we don’t you don’t use that product so you can’t”. What’s the point of any of that? What’s the point of you coming in and spending yours and their valuable time to say, “We’re not going to do that. We don’t believe in that product. We’re not going to bring it in.” To me that is just crazy. People leave practices because of that kind of thing because they feel their wings are being clipped. They can’t keep learning and growing because they’re not allowed to do more things. It is such a tragic thing, like let your people grow. It doesn't really bring in 10,000 syringes, but at least let them try it, learn and grow,  and maybe you adopt it and its a great product for your practice. You never know. That's just shocking to me.

 
 

30:43  

Speaker 2: I agree with you. I can't tell you how many sculptor trainings I've done and then the trainees haven't picked up a viola Sculptra since, “Oh, well, the office didn't order it”. “Oh, okay. Well, that's so unfortunate.” I always say, “If you're going to do the training on a Friday, have all your family members come in on Monday. So you can practice everything that you learned, if you don't practice the next day, you're going to forget, you know?” 

 
 

31:05

Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you also are big with MERS. Every year to Aesthetic Next, you’re at the advisory board for MERS. I'm going to call them this year and say, “Don't do that to me again”. You're kind of in between both camps as far as like the bio stimulator products? How do you decide which one you want to use between a radios and a Sculptra? It might be an unfair question, but you also mix and match? How do you make that decision as a clinician to say, “I know what both these things do. And is this the right product for this patient type?”

 
 

31:40

Speaker 2: It's so funny, because everyone always thinks they compete with each other, you know, Sculptra on the radios. They do very different things. So I use them together. I always use the analogy of Sculptra being a scaffolding for your face and body too. We all need structural support. So whether you're 20, 25 30 or 40, we all need some form of structural support. And I tell everybody, every new patient walking into your practice, no matter what age they have actually started on some sculpture, they will thank you in 10 years. So I look, the way I explained the difference between the two is sculpture, again, it offers structural support, it's like scaffolding for your face. When you're building a house, you need a foundation. So think of sculpture as the foundation that applies to the body use of that as well. Radios are more like the finishing touches like the gloss that the painting on the house. It does other things that Sculptra can't do. If someone wants an Angelina Jolie type jawline, or things like that, radios are better for that. So, again, what they don't compete with each other, they do very different things. One has an inflammatory response; one has a controlling inflammatory response. So really, it is patient specific, and you have to use your judgment on what you're going to use and why you're going to use it. I find since I do a lot of sculpture butts, the younger clientele prefer HD radios only because there's more of an immediate response. They see that they're pretty excited about that. However, if I had my druthers, I would probably start with the Sculptra, and then sort of do a little tweaking with the radius. But I really cater to my patients and what they're looking for.

 
 

33:09

Speaker 1: I want to get into butts. I want to ask you before I do advisory boards. I just mentioned that obviously you did the advisory boards from MERS as a gains trainer. How did you get yourself in the right room? Obviously, you're talented now. You're super talented. That's how you discovered if that's even the word that you use. You and I also know it's about timing and where you are and getting in the right room. How did you find yourself on these, you know, prestigious appointments? How did you get there from being a person who has a single injector now in your own practice? You're not in some big factory setting. How'd you get through all those stages?

 
 

33:54

Speaker 2: Well, when I want something, I'm definitely like a dog with a bone. So my poor Galderma reps back in the day, I think weekly, I said “How to become a great gain trainer, what do I need to do? What do I need to do?” And every single one of them will tell you I've never left them alone. I compare it to sort of making it to the NFL, it's rough, Tiffany. Then first you want to get to the NFL, right? And then you want to make the roster, but then you want to work and make it to the starting lineup. And that takes time and developing relationships with the reps and doing a good job. I'm always taken aback when everyone I work with, they always say, “Oh my god, I love working with you. Thank you so much. You're so professional.” I'm thinking, “Well, goodness, what is everyone else?” I answer emails, I reply right away, I show up on time. It's kind of the basics. If you've asked me that same thing today, I'm coming your way next week and someone I'm working with like, “Oh my god, I love working with you. You're so professional.” with “Well, thank you, I try to be respectful of people's time. You know, my time isn't any different than anyone else is.”

 
 

35:02  

Speaker 1: Well, it's a lost skill. It's funny because I had a person. Well, last week a person on Instagram said, “I hate all these meetings are just a social club. You know, all these industry meetings are no good.” And a segue next is left off the list. So you know me, I just DM the first one, like, “What the hell man? Are you hating on the meeting? Like what's my meeting done to you?” She's like, “No, it's the same people on the podium at every meeting. And I'm just sick of seeing it”. I'm like, “Well, how come no one's raising their hand.” I'd love to have people come to me and say I want to speak at your meeting. I have a great idea for a talk. I have a great concept, I would love to show it to you. I want to do a talk on it.” I would give my left leg and maybe my right leg due to having people come to me and say I want to be part of your meeting. And I have a great idea. Otherwise, you're going to do it all night long every night for six months and go on Instagram and dig up and dig around and look and see who's doing what things, who's good technique, who has a good before and after. And I reached out and asked him to come speak at the meeting. I'm left to do all this research and do all this fact finding on my own because no one has the balls to raise a frickin hand. And it is exhausting. 

 
 

So if you're listening to this podcast right now, be Cheyanne. Go scream and dance and yell and shake your bell and say, “I want to be part of this thing. Get me on your podium.” Because I tell you as an organizer, I hate that I hate people who just sit back and complain about it. And then don't ever do anything to put themselves in a position to be chosen. That's my soapbox.

 
 

36:33

Speaker 2: I'm going to play devil's advocate with you Tiffany. The goal of the conference is to sell tickets, right? So you have to go on Instagram and pick the people that have a big following who may not necessarily have the best aesthetic outcomes, but they're going to fill the room for you. So I think it is a mix of both. I think you can pick a balance. There are some of us that are very science science oriented. So I think that's a huge portion of it. And there are others that- I'm not a big fan of TikTok or things like that. But I know it does well and it can fill a room and sell some tickets. So I think probably ideally, to sell the tickets and fill the room you need a mix of everything from science and trendy and Instagram followers and all that stuff. Trust me, I wish it could just be like the people that are my mentors because they really are just geniuses. I just don't know if they'll fill or sell those tickets for you because no one knows who they are on Instagram. 

 
 

37:34

Speaker 1: I think it's interesting too as we look at 2020/30 whatever year we're in, it is different. I have lots of people who we work with that are big on Tik Tok and do that but they're also incredibly gifted injectors and great at science and so the content that they submit for a deck you know for conference- I do all the medical reviews here which is extraordinarily good. They will sell tickets to your point because they have all this following but when it comes to the stage, they're a whole different person right they become Cheyanne and like science, math the whole thing shows up and it's very different. People are often taken aback where they're like, “Huh, I thought I was coming to see the fun Rockstar personality but actually saw like an injector who was training me on technique”. They almost get let down about it like either way, it's kind of to your point kind of a lose-lose. 

 
 

In a 200+ faculty a few of them are new so I didn’t have to go find them. But I digress on that entirely back to the booty because you are a big booty person. You're in LA, which I know means people can afford to do more things or they do. How are you getting these high-volume booties? You're doing a lot of sculpture in the rear end, how do you sell that A? How do you get people to keep coming back and being compliant with getting treatments over and over and over again? Give us your booty guidance. 

 
 

38:40

Speaker 2: It's one of the things which all comes down to the patient consultation. It really is just about educating them. I know you have seen my Instagram. So all my booties come in all shapes and sizes from those desiring former Kardashian booties- because those have also slimmed down now- to models who just want to feel a little bit more cakey. That's what a supermodel is. I just wanna be a little bit more cakey when I'm walking down the runway, and she's tall and lean and fit. Whenever I put on Instagram, like, “She doesn't need that, but she feels better”. So it's really, I think more often than not how these things make the individual feel, not so much about the Instagram judgment. 

 
 

So for me, I think, I don't have any issues selling it at all. So it's really about the patient's education, informing them and explaining the differences between a BBL versus a bio-stimulatory approach and stuff like that. 

 
 

We do offer financing. I'm a big fan of cherry, I know you at Aesthetic Record, love cherry as well. So my patients love cherry, and they just keep returning. So everyone usually does about three treatments. My supermodel, we'll see her back on the 14th. It's treatment number seven if you can believe it. So she's very happy with her results. She looks natural. She's growing her own tissue. She's super excited and just feeling sexier and her lingerie on the runway. You just want people to feel good, and I think that's what makes them come back.

 
 

40:07

Speaker 1: We mentioned the Kardashians are slipping up. The semaglutide wave is here people. Do you think that booties are going to go away in some regard or get back to more of a slimmed down approach? Then also within weight loss, does that fit into your practice and your bespoke? Again, you are very much an artist, I don't know if semaglutide fits your motif, if you want to call it that. But is there a place for that in the 2023 Medical Spa practice to focus on weight loss as a big billboard big calling card? 

 
 

40:36

Speaker 2: Yes. I work a lot with a Cellular Medicine doctor and he works a lot with peptides. So for patients that really are interested in aging, younger from the inside out, we collaborate with him and so he does their blood work. And then the peptides are designed for them. And he puts them on a protocol. And I have to tell you, Tiffany, it's kind of amazing that within a month everybody is lean and buff and loving their results. So some are on semaglutide, which is also [inaudible], some are not and then there are other things on there as well that have helped. Again, I'm fortunate enough to be in a marketplace where people want to do all these things, they want to look good and feel good. So yes, we're working a lot with peptides which are injected so that you inject them into subcutaneous tissue in the body. And, you know, be slimmed down, develop muscle, lean muscle mass, and all the things.

 
 

41:35  

Speaker 1: Does that lead us to smaller booties? Do you think that's going to be a new wave? I felt like the skinnier faces I’m seeing a lot on Instagram. There is all this ozempic face. What are you going to do when your face gets so skinny? I’m just going to get Sculptra like, I'll be fine. You pick the fat in your butt than your face. I'm picking the fat in my butt to get rid of. Forget the face. I'll figure that should help. But get this butt small. I want this butt to be tiny. So what do you think? 

 
 

41:59

Speaker 2: The butt they're not changing coming in for the sculpture. But yes, nobody wants those gigantic barriers anymore. They just want something that's natural. Same thing, we're seeing the trend in plastic surgery where everyone's getting all their breast implants explanted. So that gigantic look is not really current right now. But no, they're still coming in for their non surgical, but augmentations they just don't want to be that huge. Obviously, it's sort of respecting the patient's shape and form and what the end goal is, but I haven't seen a decline.

 
 

42:36

Speaker 1: On that you will I think because you're doing a lot of I don't want to say custom. But yeah, I think about things like hip depth and just like shape, you know, more consistent shape and even texture and tone. And I think people are so confused that butts had to be big, it's like, “We're just going to pump in volume”. Actually, there's a lot more things we can do with sculpture even you know, liposuction gone wrong, and you've got ripples and things that we can do with, hyper radios or Sculptra to change the game or renewable as well. That doesn't require volume. So I think we're still on the same path. It just may look a little bit different going as we enter 2023. 

 
 

43:14 

Speaker 2: I think so. I think 2023 is going to be a very interesting year. I think it's going to be a challenge until June. Hopefully once the Feds drop the interest rates, we'll see a little bounce back and things, but time will tell you.

 
 

43:28

Speaker 1: As a business owner, thinking through that, with all these new things coming to market, I think the manufacturers are going to feel it as well, obviously, and have to bring out program incentives. But how do you brace for that, as a business owner knowing that, you know, potentially, especially because you are in LA, I think you hit so much worse in New York and LA than anywhere else? But how do you start to prepare for that and cut expenses and really build a business plan? 

 
 

43:49

Speaker 2: Well, that was one of my meetings today, we really are trying to shift focus a little bit and see what, where we can maximize things in 2023 and the best approach to do that, as you know, January is usually a little slow for everybody. January has been great for me for the past two years. So I'm curious to see what this January brings so far for the appointments that we have on the books. It's solid, but business is definitely down from last year. We're sort of reviewing everything today. Apart from Instagram, I don't do any marketing or things like that. It's all referral. And I prefer it that way because it kind of limits the crazy. I prefer that, you know, a friend sends me someone and then, you know, it's much better than sort of someone finding you out of the blue, I think anyway.

 
 

44:49  

Speaker 1: Well, that's a unique model. I have been talking about being very much a bespoke practice. The fact that you work on referrals only, I think, is just me, that's crazy especially because you have a giant Instagram following. I think I checked 80,000, some ridiculously high number of people that follow you to be referral-based practice. So thinking through that, they find you obviously on Instagram have these great videos, which I want to talk about for sure. But they find you and they just inquire like, “Hey, I want to come see you”. Do you say, yes, no, do a free console. How does that work? 

 
 

45:13

Speaker 2: So we try to weed out a little bit, get a little bit more information. How did you find us? What are you interested in? Obviously, if somebody's messaging, just asking you about pricing, that's not something we're going to entertain. I'm very grateful to Instagram, it's brought me a lot of booties. I have a love-hate relationship with Instagram. It's brought me a lot of headaches and a lot of crazies as well. So we do try to weed that out. But the referrals mostly come from patients who've come in and are happy with the results. 

Instagram, if you can believe it, I get more training, people inquire about training. So just had someone from Canada book a three-day training with me in March. So that's great. 

 
 

45:50

Speaker 1: Well, I think your Instagram was built for that. We really connected throughout the whole COVID virtual world that we were all living in about video and your video content, what you're trying to do. I've watched you on camera just blossom from someone who was in the beginning a little bit nervous about it. Not really that you were awkward just hadn't found your footing yet so now you're I mean, you do it all the time. You have Instagram videos everywhere, you're training, you're talking about sculpture and whatever else, your booty is a whole thing. You're doing it effortlessly. What has that been? I think the hardest thing for people who are trying to market themselves is to just rip off the band aid and do the awkward things and get it over with to learn and grow. You have done it beautifully over time. I think it's an improved or increased Instagram following it has to have because now your high-quality content that's everywhere. I see it all the time. 

 
 
 

Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much. I never know what actually is going to interest people. So thank you. But it's time Tiffany, just like you said, when I first started doing it, I was awkward and uncomfortable. I think it's helped practice like anything in life, practice, practice, practice. And then when I finally realized, they edited everything. So if I mess up, they're just going to do it again. Then I think it's helped me sort of relax a little bit. I worked with the same camera crew, the same video team each time. So now I'm more relaxed. But no, when I first started, I have no shame in my game to say I use my iPad as a teleprompter because I would forget everything, I'd want to say there was a camera in my face and I was like, “Wait, what?” Then they're like, “Just pretend it's a patient because then I can rattle it off like it's nothing”. I do much better off the cuff. Now instead, if I prepare something, it doesn't work out, then I mess up. If I just walk in and kind of do it like I would have canceled it's much better. So that's sort of where we are now. Of course, on the day of filming is the day something always goes wrong, like a model doesn't show up, somebody gets sick, and then you just have to sort of roll with it. That's the biggest lesson learned and COVID- just roll with it.

 
 

47:47  

Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, for the podcasts, I just go off the cuff. Wherever it takes me I go but I do a lot of teleprompter work because we have to have things that are a certain amount of time and you know, short, concise, long explanations that I'll rattle trap too long. And there's an art to me as you've learned there's an art to talking to a camera and to reading a teleprompter and a script and it just takes time people ask me all the time and I just say, “It just takes time. He's got to do it. And unfortunately have the same care man, the same camera crew all the time too. And it becomes very messy.

 
 

47:15

Speaker 2: You have the best camera man.

 
 
 

47:18  

Speaker 1: That's true. I do have the best cameraman. But it makes it easier because he knows what I like, I know what he likes. We all have worked together. I would tell people who want to become like Cheyanne and learn it and grow and do over time, find what works for you, and just do a lot of it just do so much of it. Yours really has gotten so good. Nothing people want to train with you because you're so great at explaining what you're doing. And that like little one minute video, I'll learn a ton of stuff from you. So thinking through that, how do you come up with the content? How do you decide what you're going to feature in those little video snippets? And how does that even work as you put it, like actually, logistically put it on Instagram? 

 
 

48:50

Speaker 1: Well, how it all started, you know, since you mentioned, I was one of the honestly one of the first users of sculpture, but a big advocate of it before it became trendy, I came up the idea of doing something called “The Sculptor” face series, and I followed three patients over 24 weeks, and that got a lot of traction. And then I did it again. And then it sorts of branched off into other things. So I usually try and film the content every six to eight weeks. And I tried to diversify a little bit. But every week, I usually put ads posting up on Instagram models needed and then sort of weed out what comes in. I always ask for photos, making sure they don't have filler in their face, I prefer to deal with a natural face. If that's possible. I always try to do a mix of sculpture. But I want to make sure that it's somebody that's going to commit to the series because we want to document the progress over time. And then just feature a little bit of everything from chins to jawlines to undereyes. And then, as you mentioned, the more you do it, you realize what works and what doesn't work on camera. 

 
 

So under eyes don't really work great in video because patients pink up from the numbing cream. So the before and afters aren't the best. So I had to steer away from that. Then I would tell everybody, “Yeah, just practice, practice because as you're injecting, you have to change your gauze because you see, there's blood on it”. So it's just little things that you realize, and the team will point out as you move along because they know what bothers me. My big thing is, I don't want to see anything in the shot. I don't want gauze or gloves or anything that looks messy. So now everyone's running around because they know what I like which makes it a lot easier. So practice, practice, practice, practice, like anything in life, I would say.

 
 

50:33

Speaker 1: Oh yeah. And as a business owner now, we're kind of wrapping up here thinking about what you've learned, obviously, marketing being a huge part of it, you're marketing yourself in a big way. You're thinking about growing your brand and new locations. What are the things that as you look back on this, even this entire conversation and all the things we talked about that were your biggest challenges or learning lessons about becoming an entrepreneur or even an injector. And also, what pleasantly surprised you are things that you're like, “Oh, my gosh, I'm just a natural at this, like this is just easy for me to do as a business owner”? Loaded question. 

 
 

51:00

Speaker 2: Yeah, super loaded question. I would say being a business owner has probably been the greatest challenge, especially since we opened in the middle of COVID. We had a lot of other unexpected things to deal with, like the Department of Public Health and LA County guidelines and things like that. So that definitely was challenging, but a huge learning experience. I would say probably what comes with the greatest ease for me is patient satisfaction. I'm confident in my aesthetic outcomes and making people look and feel their best. So that probably comes with the greatest ease of everything. But being a business owner definitely has been a roller coaster. It's not for everyone. I understand, as I'm hiring people, you know, if they have family and kids and stuff, they want to be running out the door at 4:59. So that's a different dynamic. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just a different work ethic. And you know, it's a learning curve for sure.

 
 

51:54  

Speaker 1: Well within that learning curve, just because I'm curious about your day because you do train a lot, how are you fitting in time to be a trainer? And what do you allocate to training? What do you allocate to the business ownership hours you know, actually running the business and then also allocating time to your patients? So how do you look at your given week or month and kind of structure to fit in? 

 
 

52:13

Speaker 2: Usually Mondays are like administrative days, Mondays or Tuesdays just depends on how the week goes. And then training its variable. It all comes in waves, people think sometimes I just trained full time for Galderma and I'm like, “No, I wish” it just happens that they all when they call you to see if you're available. They all call for the same week. So it looks like that. So that's just how it looks. So that the trainings is usually all at once all packed into one week or three or four days and then nothing for a couple of weeks like that. And then the clinic I work every day I have the luxury I can walk to my office which is a seven-minute walk from my house. So patients are like “You work Sundays too?” I do. LA traffic is terrible. So someone wants to come in for a Sculptura butt yeah, no problem. I'll be there Sunday morning. You know, it's two hours out of my day. Not not that big of a deal.

 
 

52:05  

Speaker 1: Yeah, and high revenue, right. So it's a good amount of money. Well, it's funny you mentioned the gain trainers because I feel like they get their money on the same day. They're training money. They're all calling you the same day like, “Hey, can I book you right now? I've got money in my account manager account to book you”. But it is true. But as far as like your private training, so our audience who's listening, thinking about you know, I'd love to come train with you. Give us a quick idea of what all you do in private trainings, like what kinds of topics you cover and how to find you to book one of those. 

 
 

53:33

Speaker 2: I cover everything from injection 101, to advanced injection training, mid face, full face, pan face, [inaudible] rejuvenation, bio stimulators. They can find me on my Instagram, which is at the theprivatesuitLA. What makes me laugh the most is someone will send a direct message saying, “Well, how do we contact you?” And I'm thinking, “Click the Contact button, there's my phone number, and there's the email. You can email us; you can text us. All of those things work well.”

 
 

54:01  

Speaker 1: Yeah, so the Private Suit LA I’ll put in the comments as well. But I know that you are a very loved trainer, I've talked to lots of accountants who work with you, especially on Sculptra. I've heard lots of feedback from my gain days about what a great Sculptra trainer you are. So if you guys are interested in private training, I certainly am an advocate for Cheyanne and know what she can do. I think that your artistry component, the things that you believe in, and kind of what makes you and your unique differences. You are science, math and things that you're also very much an artist and you have, the flair, so what I would call it that you know, the look at the person and see what they need and kind of understand what they want out of it, versus just stuffing things in their faces. So I think it's a great investment. As you mentioned, you have to invest in yourself over and over again in this business, or you will not survive here. But as far as your own training, what are the things that you recommend people go do when they're at your level, more advanced injectors to stay abreast of things to stay on top of you know, what's changing? How do you go get training? 

 
 

54:56

Speaker 2: Oh, I go spend as much time as I can with Dr. Arthur Swift. I highly recommend everybody who's advanced at an advanced level, whatever that means to them. Go spend some time with Dr. Swift, he is a genius. He is a modern day DaVinci. And you cannot learn something anytime you spend time with him. People always say that to me, “We don't go to a lot of conferences”. I'm thinking, Well, for me to take time out of the office. I understand there's a huge social component of the conferences, and that's wonderful. But if I'm taking time out of office, I want to go and learn something. And if I'm going to spend- you know the cost of the conference- I want to walk away with things that I can incorporate into my practice. I always try to spend as much time as I can with Dr. Swift. Hi, I'm a huge fan and his dear friend of mine, Dr. Sebastian Cutterfauna, I highly recommend everybody do a cadaver lab once a year. I know those are becoming very trendy right now and other injectors are offering them. So whatever is in their budget or logistically makes the most sense, I do think that's a great idea. 

 
 

My first cadaver lab was with Dr. Chris Sorek. You were there. You were there with me. I walked in the door, and I was like, “Oh my goodness”. So he started I think about trend for sure. And obviously now he's grown into a huge success and sold that to An SPA. My recommendation is for people who are advanced and want to level up. I would definitely spend some time with Dr. Swift and Professor Sebastian Cutterfauna for sure.

 
 

56:28  

Speaker 1: I agree with two great names and artists at this game for a long time. He is very good at what he does and he has such a swagger when he teaches that makes you just want to keep listening. I don't know if he's just a fun guy. I worked with him years and years ago at Galderma and we launched Refine Define. He was a riot then and he still Riot now. So I can imagine that you get a lot of that. I think you mentioned international Kate Goldie. I think there's lots of international folks doing things that we don't get yet because the FDA that they've already learned the techniques, they've learned the products that we kind of get a few years later. You can jump the Shark going international. I feel like there's always a disconnect there like once you're in an advanced injector, where do you go because so much of our industry is focused on the newer injector, even the intermediate injector. They kind of forget at your level like how you keep leveling up and growing and changing. I think this new area that you're focusing on to think about more of the bio stimulator the cellular level, the peptides, that's kind of the next frontier. I envision you'll be leading that charge very soon as well. But as we wrap up here, is there anything that we wanted to talk about or chat about before we go?

 
 

57:32

Speaker 2: I think we covered it all. Did we forget something? 

 
 

57:34

Speaker 1: When you know somebody really well, you’re like, “Well I know things about you, but have I gone through them all?” I think we have. I appreciate you coming today and really talking about all the things that you're doing. I think Private Suite LA, what you're doing there. The bespoke idea is very, very cool. It's different right now which I think is very telling for our economy and how you'll survive in 2023 in a different way than others. So for the record we loved having you today. Again, guys at the Private Suite LA, you can get a hold of PA Cheyanne there. You can hit the contact button and get her phone number and you can email her. You can find her there. But anything you're doing in the next few months' conferences you're going to be attending or things you're going to be hosting or doing or teaching let us know. 

 
 

58:14

Speaker 2: I will definitely do it. Thank you so much for having me. What a pleasure. 

 
 

58:17

Speaker 1: Well, we're glad to have you on and guys, I will see you all again next week for episode 51. Bye, guys. 

 
 

58:24

Speaker 2: Bye. 
 
 

Thanks for listening to another episode of For The Record. This podcast is not intended to provide legal or medical advice. It's for entertainment, education and information purposes only. For more information on this week's guests or to get started with Aesthetic Record, email us at info at Aestheticrecord.com. Be sure to tune in next week for more fresh perspectives on disrupting the status quo and surviving the esthetics industry.